Compiled Dialogues Of 2002

Introduction

There have been quite a number of dialogues and correspondences during 2002. Here are three cases of it that seems noteworthy to share. As stated earlier, there’s been quite a number of dialogues especially AIM ones, but most of them have been accidentally lost, or has been too obscene or too short to be featured.
Case 1 Case 2 Case 3      

Case #1 Dink or Think?

This was a dialogue with an old high school friend who's now in the University of California at Davis. It's interesting to have a discussion late August 2002 after finishing Marine Corps Boot Camp.

[Bart, Homer, and Moe are fictional names from The Simpsons© any reference to real people are purely coincidental. -Ed. Note]

Pulpitpastor: http://www.angelfire.com/rock2/team

Pulpitpastor: u there?

Pulpitpastor: or do u not dare?

Pulpitpastor: Bart…

Pulpitpastor: u there?

Atheist: hey now

Atheist: I remember this

Pulpitpastor: how have u been my friend

Athiest: I've been alright

Pulpitpastor: what's been up?

Atheist: pondering my future

Atheist: spending my days in front of my computer mostly

Pulpitpastor: the eternal one or more nearer distant?

Pulpitpastor: i see

Pulpitpastor: how's school?

Pulpitpastor: u back at school?

Atheist: no, not yet

Atheist: late september

Atheist: where are you right now?

Pulpitpastor: i see

Pulpitpastor: home...on break from boot camp

Atheist: ah..the real deal

Pulpitpastor: yes

Pulpitpastor: where r u at right now?

Atheist: I'm at home

Atheist: when do you go back to camp?

Pulpitpastor: i go back September 3rd....

Pulpitpastor: Homer is at boot camp too

Atheist: is he

Atheist: how is it there?

Pulpitpastor: going through the crucible right now as we speak

Atheist: fun

Pulpitpastor: probably a bit miserable but i think he can hack it

Atheist: how did you hack it?

Pulpitpastor: lol

Pulpitpastor: i admit in honestly, i struggled during the crucible

Pulpitpastor: the packs were heavy on me

Pulpitpastor: i was the smallest guy in my platoon by the way

Pulpitpastor: so what's been up on ur side of the street?

Pulpitpastor: been pondering any spiritual thoughts?

Atheist: I had a spirited conversation with Moe a week ago

Pulpitpastor: oh really?

Pulpitpastor: Moe...the one at UCSD?

Pulpitpastor: about...

Atheist: yes..

Atheist: it reminded me of when I used to talk to you

Pulpitpastor: ...

Atheist: he was encouraging me to come to church

Pulpitpastor: nothing wrong with that

Pulpitpastor: so what u say?

Pulpitpastor: said

Atheist: no

Atheist: not at all

Atheist: well

Pulpitpastor: :-)...

Pulpitpastor: "not at all"....

Pulpitpastor: hm

Atheist: don't go bursting your pants

Pulpitpastor: y is it i smile

Atheist: smile is good

Pulpitpastor: go on...

Atheist: it'll also give you lots of happy wrinkles in old age

Atheist: I took my Christianity is not nice stance

Atheist: I started saying something about the church

Atheist: applying that as a general

Atheist: meaning of religion

Atheist: when he interrupted me

Pulpitpastor: with....

Atheist: describing how the church and religion

Atheist: are all not necessary

Atheist: after explaining about how

Atheist: the important

Atheist: thing is the relation with Jesus

Pulpitpastor: what's the biggest obstacle with u coming to accept Jesus Chrsit?

Pulpitpastor: Christ

Atheist: I adopted that mean in more generalized terms so then I could use "church" and "religion"

Pulpitpastor: i don't get ur word games

Atheist: like you've said

Atheist: you don't need to go to church to believe

Pulpitpastor: hm...i don't equate going to church per se as believing but i do see as believer the importance of going to church

Atheist: yes, yes

Atheist: church is very good

Atheist: for the most part

Atheist: lots of good things come from church

Atheist: a church

Atheist: the church

Atheist: and whatnot

Pulpitpastor:: so...met any christians while u were at UCD?

Atheist: oh sure

Atheist: haha

Atheist: did I

Atheist: there was this very large campaign one of the fellowships had

Atheist: people would walk aroiund with these very bright orange shirts with the words, Ï found it

Pulpitpastor: what's the thing that hinders u from Christianity?

Atheist: ÿes, yes, back to that

Pulpitpastor: do let me know

Pulpitpastor: again, i'm smiling

Atheist: everyone likes smiling

Atheist: perspective

Atheist: a person's perspective is unique

Pulpitpastor: kay

Atheist: it's very likely

Atheist: that one person's perspective will be very different from another's

Atheist: owing to taht

Pulpitpastor: somehow makes Christianity invalid?

Atheist: yes

Atheist: I shall explain

Pulpitpastor: i shall see u try

Atheist: you think Christianity is the world

Atheist: I think differently

Atheist: you think everything you think is right

Pulpitpastor: u think wrongly but go on...

Atheist: I think everything I think is right

Atheist: different perspectives

Atheist: it has all to do with perspective

Atheist: it's how people live

Atheist: to think otherwise

Atheist: is to contemplate philosophy

Atheist: and twist your mind into wonders beyond

Pulpitpastor: and somehow by ur pure thinking it disproved Christianity?

Atheist: so a person develops a core basis for understanding

Atheist: no, no

Pulpitpastor: :-D

Atheist: because if I were to think, for instance,

Pulpitpastor: "think"

Atheist: that what I knew was absolutely wrong

Atheist: then I could not go on living

Atheist: a person has to think that what they think is right

Atheist: to some extent

Atheist: so I think what I think is right

Atheist: and you think what you think is right

Atheist: and a jew thinks what he or she thinks is right

Atheist: and a muslim thinks what she or he thinks is right

Pulpitpastor: somehow validates CHristianity?

Atheist: and that is how people live

Atheist: a difference of perspective

Atheist: in your own mind, for example.

Pulpitpastor: lol

Pulpitpastor: i love talking to you Shaun...something about it

Atheist: it's a riot talking to you too

Pulpitpastor: i gotta go now my friend...i have a feeling we'll talk some more in the far off future about this....

Pulpitpastor: till then...http://www.angelfire.com/rock2/team

Atheist: far off?

Pulpitpastor: not too far off into the crispy scream though

Pulpitpastor: good night and God bless

Atheist: jesus is your life

Atheist: til next time

Atheist: my friend

Pulpitpastor: we'll talk again:-)

 

Case 1 Case 2 Case 3      

Case 2 Barbequing Beef, Part 1

Much of the usual task for the Pulpitpastor side of TEAM ministry is keeping up to tabs on as many atheists, Mormons and Christian websites as much as possible. On December 7th, 2002, a “Christian” rock band website was encountered on Angelfire in which it featured a page called “Beef”. There was a short paragraph on this page in which it mentions Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry (CARM) as a hateful website and one that misrepresent Mormonism. Being familiar with CARM material, it was appropriate to drop an email and give a respond. Here is the email:

I see a lot of positive attitudes and strongly define morals in ur band...keep it up guys.

However, one comment about the "Beef" page...i hope u guys don't take it the wrong way, but u guys said u were against dissing people's belief. WEll, I thought it was kind of inconsistent to be bashing on Christian Apologetics Research Ministry(CARM) website.

I"m a Christian...as a Christian the Bible commanded in Jude 3 to "contend for the faith"...that doesn't mean sending flaming hate messages with profanity...no, it means speaking the truth about false belief systems (See how the Book of Collossians spoke out against error) and refuting error.

I've looked through CARM and I don't see any misrepresentation of MOrmonism...I've been researching MOrmonism firsthand for quite sometimes now, I'm doing this out of love that some may wake up to the truth, not to diss them.

I do see some problems with mormonism...u can see this on my website under the article, "Critique of 1st Nephi" (Website http://www.angelfire.com/rock2/team )

If you see any misrepresentation or problem with my research, I would be more than happy to hear about it.

Jesus saves Sinners.

--JIMMY LI

One of the three band members replied the same day with a rather shockingly respectful email:

Hello Jimmy

Thanks for your email. Unfortunatly we were not the ones who wrote to (carm)

and said those things it was our web designer who did we did ask him to

retract it but he did not he was giving a strong stern talking to. We are

also no longer together due to marriages and families as we know as

christians family first. Well let me say that again I mean God first then

family but we have to have balance we go to church and activities and spend

time with family we could not do the band anymore to keep the balance. I

aslo recently left the Mormon church as it is not right for me anymore so I

became born again like the bible says to be. I am happier and looking

forward to my journey with Christ and God.

All the best to you Brother and keep searching God and the Truth

May God Bless Your Life Brother

Several days later, another email was received from the former band member who wrote the “Beef” page:

I haven't updated the site in about 2 years. I'm glad that the site which we

both speak of has removed their insulting page on mormonism. It was

incorrect information that had my blood boiling, which I will make no

excuses, but what's in the past is in the past. Thanks for writing.

This would have been the end of it, but there’s a part two to this in case 3, in which things don’t end up so polite from the two.

Case 1 Case 2 Case 3      

Case #3 Barbequing Beef, Part 1

TEAM ministry has a message board in which one of the forums are titled, “DEBATE ME!!!” Here’s what I posted back in November 23rd, 2001 and December 9th, 2001:

Pulpitpastor

Registered User

Posts: 1

(11/23/01 12:27:53 pm)

Reply

DEBATE ME!!!!
ANYONE AN ATHEIST, AGNOSTIC, JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES, MORMONS, BUDDHIST, REINCARNATIONIST, FALUN GONG OR OTHERS THAT WANT TO DIALOGUE?

LET"S GET SERIOUS NOW!!!

Pulpitpastor

Registered User

Posts: 2

(12/9/01 8:53:28 pm)

Reply

Re: DEBATE ME!!!!
If you are reading this, I want to ask you: Have u ever consider the message that Jesus died for YOU because he loved you?

The characters from Case Two popped up and decided to dialogue with me on the topic of Mormonism, and my website's article concerning the Book of Mormon:

DevilsWeapon

Registered User

Posts: 1

(12/11/02 4:15:27 pm)

Reply

I see said the blind man
Well I came, I saw......and I see what you're are all about. Not interested in debating with people that think they know it all because they are LEARNED, and think THEY know it all. I'll be the first to admit that I don't know as much as I would like to know, but these forums are against everything Christianity stands for. To sum it up, this promotes hate against your fellow brothers,
Pulpitpastor

Private

Posts: 8

(12/11/02 5:11:48 pm)

Reply

thank you for ur comment
First off, I want to thank you for the comment. I appreciated whenever someone gives an input. Thank you very much.

U mention that the forum I have promotes hate against my fellow brothers. Did you mean the discussion board itself or the website at www.angelfire.com/rock2/team ?

If you do find something hateful, perhaps a sneer reply or statement on my part, I'll take an honest look at it and myself and will issue an apology when it is warranted.

U seem to have some idea what Christianity is about (I'm not being sarcastic here). I sense somewhat u r a moral person. Do u see Christianity as morals or something more than that also?

Again, thank you for your email.

Enjoy the rest of your day.

Celtickelly

Registered User

Posts: 1

(12/14/02 2:29:15 pm)

Reply

5min in the sin bin for cross checking. lol

Well I came as you requested. I checked out the book of Mormon section, where you break down the 1st Nephi. Pretty much everything you wrote is based on perception. I can understand how you came to some of your conclusions. What you ask me to do would be very time consuming. I would have to break things down into third person sense, due to your catholism view (excuse my spelling). If I find some time in the near future, maybe I'll look into this as a learning experience, but my time with my family comes first.

P.S. Where do you find all the free time to do all your research?

DevilsWeapon

Registered User

Posts: 2

(12/15/02 8:18:42 pm)

Reply

Soemthing I thought about in church today.
If you were to die and be in the presence of Christ. would he shake his head and turn his back on you and walk away for wasting your time and life with all this non-sense......or would he open his arms and say job well done? I think it would be the first of the two. Pray about these things, I hate to see you waste your life on such silly things.
Pulpitpastor

Private

Posts: 9

(12/15/02 8:25:50 pm)

Reply

Evening gentleman
Greetings! Thank you for leaving behind a message after visiting our website. I very much appreciate it. I wish and have prayed that your family would be well this holiday season.

I want to begin first off by clearing up a possible confusion: I'm a Born-again Christian, I'm not Catholic. My reason for that can be found in the article "Peter: The first pope?" (www.angelfire.com/rock2/t...stpope.htm ) and "On Roman Catholicism: Popes & Early Creeds " (www.angelfire.com/rock2/t...ycreed.htm )

If you find any error with my article on 1st Nephi, please do inform me. I do realize that it would be time consuming on ur part and to me time would not be a factor concerning the defense of truth. LIke yourself, if t here is some valid problems on my site I will take this as a learning experience and will take out any problematic portion (or the entire Critique of 1st Nephi article!!!).

U've inquired how I have the free time to do my research. As you are probably aware, often it is time consuming. I find time mostly during the weekends to do my readings or any time that the Lord provides.

My intention with writing an article on the Book of Mormon might be something one may wonder about...why is it that I write and post on the internet something like "Critique of 1st Nephi"? My honest intent is not to propagate hate towards Latter Day Saints or attack any member personally with the article. Truly, I wish to share the TRUTH and ultimately, to bring some to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ (see www.angelfire.com/rock2/team/gospel.htm ) where one is saved from the road to hell through Jesus Christ work on the cross to bear all the punishment of man's sin.

Thank you also for reading this rather long reply. If I could ask a question before departing, would you know where you are going when you die?

Thanks again.

Fifteen days later, Celtic Kelly sent me this email:

You must be somewhat confused. Let me be the one to wake you up to the

truth. First off the beef page you speak off does not slam, diss or use

profanity. It is simple and straight to the point. It states that Carm is

misinforming people. Hate to bust your bubble bud, but you are dead wrong. I

've been hanging around Diehard Christians longer than you've been reading

your anti-Mormonism bits and pieces. To say the least an educated 12 year

old would know better.

Thanks for the invitation to debate and waste my valuable time.

Shouldn't you be preaching the gospel to the people that have not yet heard

it or are you too busy trying to knock down other faiths that don't meet up

with your indoctrination (for lack of a better word)? People like you are a

dime a dozen.

 

Peace :)

Here's my response:

Greetings Mr. Kelly Gallant,

First thing first. I hope you had a good time Christmas with your family. I realize you are a family oriented man. May you also have a blessed New Year for 2003. Again, thank you for your email. God bless you.

Your beef page "states that Carm is misinforming people." Could you demonstrate at least one example of your assertion that Carm has "misinformed" or misrepresented Mormonism? I trust you'll go "straight to the point" instead of commiting the logical fallacy of red herring (where one avoid the isses and addresses something else irrevelent to the matter) or ad hominem(attacking the opponents' personally and his character instead of dealing with the subject at hand). While saying things like "I've been hanging around die hard Christians longer than you've been reading your anti-Mormonism bits and pieces", or "least an educated 12 year old would know better" makes good sound bites, it still has to be DEMONSTRATED that CARM has been misinforming and misrepresenting Mormonism.

I do appreciate how in your email you want to put things into eternal perspective when u mention the need to preach the gospel to those who haven't heard. The Bible mandate the need to go out and make disciples( cf. Matthew 28:19-20). But the Bible also sees defending the truth as also essential (Jude 3) and at times that even means REFUTING ERROR (a requirement for church elder, see Titus 1:9). That is the aim of the website TEAM.

Before I end this email, I have to ask you, again I don't mean to ask this to belittle you or look down on you. The gospel that you mentioned about, have you accepted it? Or are you a Latter-Day Saint who does not know where you will be going when you die and depend on the futile concept of "faith and works" to save you from the righteous wrath of God upon sinner man?

Thank you for your time again. I realize you are a busy man. Have a blessed New Year.

IN HIM,

JIMMY LI

To which Celtic Kelly never answer again!

Last Edited October 20, 2007 0:46